Let’s talk about that little fitting wobble I mentioned last time shall we?
Overall I think tissue & fit-as-you-sew worked OK for this semi-fitted garment. I didn’t have much problem with fitting the front. Once the FBA was done on the front during tissue fitting, there was hardly any changes during fabric fitting.
sleeve head adjusted
The main problems I had were with the back above waist, shoulder & armhole areas, including the sleeve cap.
Part of it was due to my unfamiliarity with what to expect at different stages of fitting and how garment parts affect each other. As consumers we’re more used to judging the finished garments. It was difficult to know when to stop before I attached the sleeves for example. And I was surprised when new drag lines appear after the sleeves have been attached.
It was also a bit difficult to read excess tissue paper vs fabric. Paper being stiffer doesn’t show up drag lines as clearly as fabric.
Also, having tried sloper fitting before I probably should have tissue fitted on both sides rather than just one side. I could have cut wider seam allowance I suppose. But in curved areas & armsye for example, the extra SA might throw up false problems because it won’t lie flat or would make the armhole smaller or too high.
Comparing the tissue with pinned trench, the pinned version shows up a lot more wrinkles. It would have been easy to panic at this stage. Basting might have been a little bit smoother. But pinning did at least show up the bigger problems like my lower left shoulder & the possible need to lower both armholes (for my sloping shoulders) even on a jacket / coat which would have been designed with bigger armholes anyway.
Pinned, extra left shoulder pad
vs Sewn, extra left shoulder pad
After first sewing I was surprised that the extra shoulder pad which seem to fix my uneven shoulder problem during the pinning stage wasn’t enough to fix my uneven back. I had to redo sections of the princess seams taking in and letting out where needed. So even pin-fitting with fashion fabric isn’t fool-proof. Maybe with experience I’ll get better at pin-fitting. For now, I’ll have to be prepared to redo seams. So no ploughing ahead with seam finishing without checking the fit first!
Left vs Right adjustments
Left side with adjustments
The next hurdle is the sleeve vs pre-sleeve confusion. Minus the sleeve the shoulder looked alright (at this stage I had widen the shoulder about 1/2″).
sleeve head adjusted
Once the sleeves were attached, the shoulder felt too wide. The weight of the sleeves stretches the shoulder a bit I think. So I narrowed the shoulder by 3/8″ (leaving a 1/8″ widening compared to original shoulder width). But after the sleeve head has gone in & the whole thing lined, the shoulder now feels a tiny bit tight. I probably should have widen it the 1/4″ that my sloper fitting had implied I need. It goes to show though, when there are many bits involved (like in tailoring), it’s best not to panic too soon and over-fit! The result is still wearable, but probably would be more comfortable if I had not panicked.
The sleeves, especially the sleeve head areas, I had to attach twice. There was a bit too much ease after my bodice shoulder-armscye area adjustments. I had to lower the cap a little bit more, and when adjusting the sleeve head curve, made the back curve shallower and front fuller. I kept the original shoulder alignment point on the sleeve, but shifted the underarm seam alignment point backward to accommodate my Forward Shoulder Adjustment without making the front to full to ease into the front armscye.
So is tissue & pin-as-you-sew worth it?
Most definitely! For fitted and/or tailored garments anyway. Saves me wasting yards after yards making muslins after muslins. Documenting the process made it more tedious this time, but I think I will continue to try this method.
It probably won’t work as well for looser drapy styles. And obviously not for knits. For those, developing slopers & blocks to compare new designs to probably would work better. And if the final fabric is expensive or otherwise precious, I guess there will be no option but to make test garments in cheaper similar fabrics.
After reading all your suggestions, and rudely checking out every trench out there on the rack & moving about, I decided to save the velvets for another make. On closer inspection, the caption on the Louis Vuitton inspiration does say “glazed linen” after all. And almost every trench I saw was made with softer, thinner fabric, typically plain weave, not twill weave. (Poplins maybe?) Plus I came across some luscious coated linens & cottons at the Cloth House on Berwick Street (#47 branch, basement). Perfect excuse for fabric shopping, no?
As for the wrinkles…actually this chino doesn’t wrinkle any more than all the trenches out there. It’s probably just me not being used to cotton / linen, and/or being an overzealous sewing enthusiast who doesn’t know where to focus one’s perfectionism on.
There was much agony about whether to continue with this fabric after the velvets dropped out. Then I checked out the grandaddy of trenches, Burberry. They currently have chic designs in rubber forchrissake! That has as little drape as my stiff-as-cardboard chino if not less. So I’m fine.
8 + FBA instead of the 12 the sizing chart would have me sew.
Now I’m not 100% sure about this approach for a trench. I mean I wear trenches open as much as buttoned. While FBA gives me a great skimming fit while buttoned, I do wonder if there’s a bit too much bust shaping for the front to hang well unbuttoned. Given that I’m not a true busty gal – I’m one of those weird B-cup with big rib cage I think – maybe a bigger size with less bust shaping would be a better choice for coats like this.
That’s one reason this is a wearable muslin – I need more time to stew on this issue.
There was a bit of fitting wobbles after the pin-fit as well. But let’s save that melodrama for a round-up of my thoughts on the FFRP/JFRP tissue & fit-as-you-sew. For now, here’s the summary of all the changes I eventually made…
Rounded Upper Back Adjustment: +3/8″ CB length above shoulder blades, -1/2″ width total at CB neck edge.
Sloping & Forward Shoulder Adjustments: front shoulder -1/2″ length at armscye edge, side seam -1/4″ length at underarm, sleeve cap height -3/4″ to match / reduce ease to manageable amount.
Forward Head Adjustment: back shoulder +1/2″ length at neck edge, shifted whole front neckline down 1/2″, collar band +1/2″ width at back neckline to match.
Wide Shoulder Adjustment: +1/8″ width at shoulder armscye edge.
Princess Full Bust + Short-Waist Adjustments: side front panel +7/8″ width at my bust, -1/2″ length from side front, side back, & back panels.
Sway Back Adjustment: –1/2″ CB length at lower back.
Short Person Adjustment(!): -3/4″ length just below hip.
Lower left shoulder & smaller left back: +1/8″ height to left shoulder pad, left side back panel -1/4″ width at armscye.
Larger right bum: right back princess seam +3/8″ width total below waist.
Front princess seams: moved 1/2″ towards the front for hopefully a more slimming look.
Sleeves: -1/2″ length & converted into 2-piece sleeves for hopefully a better & more fashionable fit. Most of the fashion clippings I have tend to have the length just below the wrist bone. I guess that makes your arm look slimmer than if the sleeve ends at the wider palm area.
Collar: convert under-collar into 2-piece – the tailors do it & so should I!
Shoulder pads: used self-made 1/8″ pad to avoid a footballer look. (Had to add another 1/8″ to the left one though as I’m lopsided!)
Belt loops: moved up so they sit above my waist & moved / added extra so they’re just to the side of the princess seams. Again, hopefully more slimming than right at the side seams.
Buttons: added 2 more sets above existing ones. So I can button the front up on a cold day!
Pockets: replaced the pattern with much more sensible big self-drafted pocket pattern & moved these up a little bit so my hands can reach into them easily.
Modified patterns for turn-of-cloth: for that more professional finishing.
Verdict on the Instruction
The instruction looks V-E-R-Y long & complicated (143 steps!!!). But that’s because there are multiple variations covered. The steps themselves don’t look complicated. But if you’re following them, just double check you’re following the right steps for the version you’re making.
I of course ignored most of it! Instead I tried to cram advice from multiple sources all into one project. So highly NOT recommended. Perfect recipe for head scratching, delays, oops & redos. I got there in the end. Just. More reasons this is a wearable muslin.
First let’s talk stabilizers. I interfaced the whole front. But on the facing I only interfaced the lapel & buttonholes. This was to reduce overall stiffness. Following the example of my Topshop RTW trench, I also interface the hems on bodice & sleeves, stabilize the shoulders with Dritz Stay Tape, and the back neckline & bodice armscye with Vilene Bias Tape. I was going to interface the sleeve armscye as well, but I couldn’t figure out how to do it without impeding the sleeve cap easing process. I didn’t draft separate interfacing patterns this time. Instead I tried Jackets For Real People‘s interfacing cutting technique: Cut 2 sides, shift over a full seam allowance’s width (5/8″), cut the remaining 2 sides.
Neither did I manage to draft separate lining patterns this time: It was just getting too overwhelming by that point. So the ease are all added at the easiest points – at underarm, hems, vertical seams. As suggested by Classic Tailoring Techniques: Men’s Wear I also added a bit of width ease to multiple vertical seams in addition to CB. I reckoned that if it’s coming from the land of traditional tailoring, there must have been decades of experience backing it. All the lining seams were overlocked as suggested by Kathleen Fasanella to keep down the fraying.
Like the jacket I made for my niece, the lining for this trench was also bagged. I was lucky this time in that I had to cut a hem facing since I thought I was going to add the velvets so didn’t add hem allowance. This meant I could finish the tricky front-facing, hem, lining joint neatly before the whole bagging process. Again, I left the gap for turning the garment right side out in the lining – hem seam.
The back vent I had wanted to do like the RTW trench as the finish looked neat. But I hadn’t studied the RTW carefully enough, so missed the fact that the lining CB seam slant from CB at the neck to one side at the vent so that the seam lined up with the edge of the vent underside. I just saw one continuous straight seam. So I mistakenly cut my lining with standard CB seam allowance without vent extension and had to patch an extension on afterward. In the end I was able to finish the vent neatly all by machine.
I tried to batch sew as much as possible. But not having done the prep work (sorting out all the pattern alterations ahead of time), it wasn’t really efficient. It only added to my general confusion. So not recommended unless you have very little changes to make during the construction process.
I did manage to sew a lot of the seams pin-free! It was quite scary, and when it came to the slippery lining, there were stretches of redos here & there. But practice makes perfect right? 🙂
And another thing I practiced on was hand-sewn keyhole buttonholes. I was going to use my machine’s automated one, but I couldn’t get it to sew the keyhole symmetrically. Even with paper-thick stabilizer underneath it still wanted to do its spirally thing rather than a perfect O. So in the end I resorted to hand-sewing. Yes, all 13+4 buttonhole of it. The +4 is for the top 2-set of front buttonholes which are visible from both sides depending on whether the front is buttoned up or not. How’s that for self-torture? The instruction I used is a combination of Claire Shaeffer’s Couture Sewing Techniques and this forum post on Cutter & Tailor website.
Would I sew it again / Would I recommend it to others
I better! After all that effort.
I am however waiting for road testing results before finalizing my TNT trench pattern. It’s not just about the look you know. A garment like this must pass rigorous practicality test! Is the pocket in the right place? Can I move in it? Is it easy to slouch in & still look chic the next day? Does it play well with other clothing? Is it easy to take care of? (On this last one I’ve already given up. Nil point. This fabric likes to get out of shape. No way am I going to try to steam everything back into place after laundering. Dreaded dry cleaning it will have to be.)
Once it pass the test, I’ll have to tidy up the pattern, maybe draft the separate lining pattern, & transfer onto longer lasting kraft paper.
I would definitely recommend the pattern to others though. So many people have had great looking results with it. Just make sure you at least substitute a larger pocket pattern if you are keeping the pockets.
As for this wearable muslin, I think it’ll be getting plenty of wear alright. While it’s not perfect, I think it looks good enough to fool the non-sewing folks. Now if only the weather here would only be a bit warmer…I don’t want to wait till spring to wear my new trench!
With any luck this will be the last fitting post you see before I sew!
So following FFRP instruction, I’ve interfaced the fabric & pin the main pieces together to check how the pattern fit in this particular fabric. While I don’t plan to wear this in the midst of winter, I do hope to wear this into mid-fall with a light sweater/jumper underneath. So that’s what I’m testing the fit with.
Looks OK to my untrained eyes.
Looks a bit long.
Width-wise I had add back the 1/2″ I tucked out. 3-1/2″ ease made the sleeve a bit tight over the sweater. So I’ve let out 1/4″ on the oversleeve at the both seams. That takes the bicep ease back to 4″, which is actually what most of my RTW coats have. Doesn’t look too dowdy does it?
My lower left shoulder seem to be causing havoc here. There’s a fold at my left underarm. The CB is swinging to the right. I’m wondering if that’s also partly caused by the lower left shoulder: The fabric is rather stiff, so may be swinging to the right rather than forming more folds the left side.
There’s also a little bit of drag lines at the right underarm. I think that might be me being naughty & not doing the 2nd part of Sloping Shoulder Adjustment – ie lower the armscye at the underarm as well. The unslashed seam allowance here exacerbate the problem I think, with the arm joint pushing the fabric downward forming those drag lines.
Fabric Fitting Tweaks:
Lower left shoulder:
I’m taking the easy way out & doubling the shoulder pad height (from 1/8″ to 1/4″). That fold under the left arm is now gone & the CB now seem a bit straighter.
Underarm drag lines:
I’ve slashed the underarm seam allowance 1/4″ deep on both sides. The drag lines now seem to be reduced. I’m debating whether to lower the armscye or not. Once sewn, the SA will be trimmed a further 1/8″ anyway. So maybe no change is necessary? I don’t want the underarm to be too low as it might make the sleeve seem fatter.
CB still swinging to the right:
Maybe I have a slightly bigger right hip? Maybe pinning & not pressing make stiff fabric like this misbehave? I think I’ll sew up as is first and check again. If the problem is still there I might let out a little bit at the right back princess seam.
Decisions decisions decisions!
Fitting headache sort of over, time for headache of a different kind.
I’m a bit unsure about this fabric from the 2 decade old stash. It’s cotton twill of some sort (khaki chino?). Seemed like the right color and texture for a classic trench. But the beast is stiff with hardly any drape! More so than my RTW trench.
When you throw in interfacing on both the front & the front facing, it might just look like armor rather than chic trench inspiration I had in mind. And I have to use fusible interfacing. I tested sew-ins & I like the dimpled folds at the hem even less. Fusible at least gives me a smooth curved fold.
The contrast with the velvet hem might be too great. Both velvet are quite limp. And I won’t be able to stiffen these up with fusible interfacing. One’s silk and the other I think is rayon velvet.
So dear readers. what would you do?
Does the main fabric look too stiff? Should I not waste the velvets on this one, make a short plain trench with this stiff chino & find a softer replacement for the version with the velvet border?
I’m already considering not interfacing the whole front facing. Maybe just the lapel area so it’ll look smooth. (Did I mention this fabric love to wrinkle too?) And the interfacing for the velvet I might double up – fusible on sew-in.
The other thing that I didn’t really think through is how to finish off the velvet part at the back vent and on the inside (front facing, hem). I could have used the main fabric on the inside. But it’s a bit too late now as I’ve already cut the fabric front facing the same length as the fabric front. Oops. Looking on the bright side at least the velvet will be nice to the touch against my knees!
Are you getting bored with the tissue fittings? Just one more post on tissue fitting I promise! In fact, the main fabric is now being prepped for cutting as I write.
So of the outstanding issues, I decided to…
Waistline that’s 3/8″ too low – I’ll deal with it if it still looks too low in fabric fitting.
CF that seems to swing out to the side – probably not an issue once buttoned up.
Princess seam line – moved towards the front 1/2″. In the process of doing this, the side front panel princess seam line seem to have grown 1/4″, so reduced the front armhole gap a bit.
Front armhole gap – I decided after the final tissue fitting to widen the shoulder & reduce the front armhole gap a bit further. So final wide shoulder adjustment is 1/2″ & the gap area patched with 3/8″.
Now the bits I haven’t checked yet…
There are already plenty of complaints on Pattern Reviews about the ridiculously small pocket. And you know from my previous post that a bigger pocket was one of the reason I wanted to make my own trench. So here it is…Self-drafted pocket that I’ve checked against my hand size and the bits & pieces I tend to keep in my pocket. So it’s all good. Big enough to keep my hands warm on cold days and nothing stored in it should go missing!
I’ve had to move the pocket up a bit though. The original position was obviously designed for the Lilliputian pocket. With the pocket opening at the princess seam, the pocket can only be accessed with bent arm. So the bottom of the pocket needs to be high up enough to be reached with a bent arm.
This is a bit low. But I might ignore it as there seem to be enough ease anyway.
Sleeves: There’s like 3-1/4″ – 4″ bicep ease, which is plenty for comfort. Both the width and the length looks perfect (with the under-sleeve aligned at underarm seam). So I proceeded to convert the 1-piece sleeve into 2-piece sleeve following the instruction in Connie Crawford’s Patternmaking Made Easy. But the result looks a bit puffier than the 1-piece sleeve, even though the width hasn’t changed at all!
Maybe it’s jut paper being paper. But I’m now paranoid that the sleeves are going to come out dowdily wide. So I took a 1/2″ vertical tuck on the over-sleeve. I’m hoping that if it turns out too much I can just restore the amount with a narrower seam allowance.
So here are the final Patterns:
And here are the dart-based FBA front patterns which I won’t be using this time.
I still have to sort out lining & facing patterns. But I think I’ll do that after the fabric fitting to be sure there aren’t any more tweaks needed. But it’s looking good so far!
So it turns out I was crazy enough to try both types of FBAs, though only in tissues. There is a limit to my patience however, so I won’t be repeating the same in muslin or fashion fabric. And I also ran out of patience to do only 1-2 change at a time. So this second round covers multiple changes.
Forward Head Adjustment Fitting & Pattern Alteration style:
Added 1/2″ to back shoulder at neck edge. Shifted the whole front neckline down 1/2″, so removed 1/2″ from front shoulder at neck edge & lowered CF neckline 1/2″. This is to take care of both the Shoulder seam that’s too far back at the neck edge and the neckline at CF that’s too high for a jacket.
Wide Shoulder Adjustment:
Added just over 1/4″ to shoulder, blending to original armscye at end of gather points.
Full Bust Adjustment + Low Bust Adjustment + Short-Waist Adjustment: A) Dart-based FBA on Front Copy 1:
Added 7/8″ in width to front panel at bust level. B) Princess FBA on Front Copy 2:
Added 7/8″ in width to side front panel at bust level.
In both instances, I didn’t follow Jackets For Real People‘s instruction exactly. The waist already is already 8″ bigger than my waist. I didn’t want to add another couple inches. So instead of keeping the spread below bust point the same all the way down, I angled it back to original width at waist level.
Also, instead of adding extra 1/2″ length that result from the FBAs to the front panel, I removed 1/2″ length from the side front, side back, & back panels instead. This is to take care of some of my Short-Waist Adjustment at the same time.
For the Princess FBA I also didn’t bother lowering the bust fullness first. I wanted the princess seam line to be closer to the bust point. By simply drawing in my bust level (about 1″ lower) it brings the princess seam 1/8″ closer to my bust point. The side front panel doesn’t have a pronounced bust curve anyway. I measured both bust levels and they’re exactly the same width on the side front panel. So lower the bust fullness seemed unnecessary. But to be clear, the point where I pivot the vertical cutline toward the armhole is on my lowered bust line.
Sway Back Adjustment:
Removed an additional 1/2″ length from CB, tapering to nothing at side seam.
Once I finished all the alterations I’ll photograph & annotate the final pattern so you can see what these alterations look like on the flat patterns.
Tissue Fitting #3:
Shoulder seam now looks more balanced: Armscye side aligns with the middle of my arm joint. Neck side aligns with the back of my ear (like mentioned on p163 of Fit For Real People under “Head Sits Forward on Body” heading!).
Neckline at CF now gives me a bit of breathing space!
Shoulder now wide enough to reach my shoulder joint. Could probably be even wider for a jacket. But I don’t like the big shoulder look since my shoulder is already a bit wide compared to rest of my body.
CF at bust level now reach my CF.
CB no longer swings to the side & side seam no longer swings to the front. Waist level and hem both seem to be at the same level at CF & CB.
Adjustments still needed:
Waistline now seem about 3/8″ too low all around. Not sure if it’s worth adjusting. Kenneth King’s Moulage CD book‘s instruction for jacket sloper shifts the waistline down by 1/2″ & out to the side by 1/2″. So maybe this 3/8″ lower waist is fine for a trench?
Front armhole seems a bit too bigger now. On the other hand, my arm joints seem to have quite a wide range of motion. Garments I made before that have reasonable looking armhole end up feeling too tight / restrictive in the front when I reach forward & in the back when my arms are by my sides. Maybe I’ll try on the sleeve pattern before deciding what to do. My arms are also on the thin side. If I leave the armhole this wide, I might end up with sleeves that are too wide too.
CF seems to swing out to the side. But I’m not sure if that’s normal & caused by the cleavage (valley between the Girls!). Many of the After photos in FFRP & JFRP have the same swing to the side on the front tissue pattern, but the final garment shots look fine.
Still need to check if hip at the right level. The hip is already 6″ bigger than mine, so I think I might not need to do any width adjustments.
Still need to check if pocket holes are at a comfortable height. I’ve already decided long ago to replace the pocket pattern with my own. Many reviewers on Pattern Reviews complained about the pockets being too small. My RTW version was also too small. I wonder if it’s something to do with the front buttons & the positioning on the princess seam rather than side seam.
Now the winner of the FBA contest is…
As you can see from the photos above, they’re six of one half-a-dozen of the other. They both look about the same.
The dart-based FBA maybe has slightly better shaping at the bust. But that’s only because the princess seam on this pattern doesn’t run through the bust point. I could maybe shift the princess seam a bit towards the front / bust point to improve the shaping in the princess FBA version.
The dart one seems to give a slimmer looking waist by comparison to the wider looking bust & the sharper angle of the princess seam above the waist. But the princess one creates a stronger vertical line, which could be slimming & make one look slightly taller. So I guess it’s down to what visual effect you’d want.
Me, I decided to take Mezzo Couture‘s suggestion and go with the princess FBA version this time. I already got a darted version in Vogue Patterns 1233 dress which I can convert into a trench. But I will cut a wider seam allowance in the side front panel. This will allow me the option to move the princess seam closer to the bust point during the fashion fabric fitting stage and see which I prefer.